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dirk_designgestalten
01-17-2013, 04:48 PM
hello everybody...
we have to do a rendering, where one area needs to be filled with a diamond like texture. please see the attached picture.385
the texture is not modeld and I am not sure, if it is too high for a bumpmap.
any idea on how we can do this?
every help very welcome :)

greetz dirk

artem
01-17-2013, 04:52 PM
If your polygons are small enough, you can try using Displacement.

dirk_designgestalten
01-17-2013, 04:59 PM
I am sorry, I am not a very advanced user. can you be a bit more specific?
my problem is also how I could create the template for the bumpmap or displacement map.
I could model the texture in a cad modeler on an even surface in a square, lets say 30x30 diamonds. than I could render a top view. would that do as a template?

artem
01-17-2013, 06:04 PM
That would work indeed. Then look up a plugin for Photoshop called xNormal and use that to create a normal map that you can use as a displacement map in Bunkspeed.

andy
01-18-2013, 06:33 PM
There's really no need for displacement if your shot will be a similar one to the one we are looking at. If you are looking down at a texture and none of the heights overlap in the perspective, like buildings or a blades of grass would, then you won't notice a difference in the renders in most cases.

So be smart about where you add displacement. You need it for round objects because you see the edges where you Should see depth in your image. But something like an embossed/extruded logo on a badge where you are looking mostly at the front of the product? You'll never know the difference and your memory is free to do more useful things.

If you model your texture flat, a quick way to get what you need for That shape, is to add a black to white gradient map from the base to the top. You don't need a normal map for displacement on that object, just a height map. So the tops of the peaks will be white, and the base is black. Assign that texture to a flat shader color. Render the top view and bring that into photoshop. Crop as needed, and save the texture.

Use that as a bump map, or displacement map if it's a grip on something like a cylindar, or if you get at a low enough angle you'd see the bumps.
You don't really need a normal map for a shape like that, but if you are pretty darn close you might want one. Use that nvidia plugin for photoshop and just convert the bump map to a normal map. Done.

dirk_designgestalten
01-21-2013, 02:04 PM
first off all, thanks everybody for their help so far...

although I was messing around with it for the whole weekend, I am still nowhere near a feasible result.
I have attached a picture for you guys to see, what we have to do:
387
we have done the following design to this product, but we have to keep the same texture and the same perspective for the rendering.
as for the toolmaker we only have to specify the area and the type of texture, the texture is not physically modled as cad data.
so I believe, besides modelling the texture, (which would obviously be a nightmare in Alias or solidworks), we have to go for a displacement map.

however, non of my attempts came to an acceptable result.
the problems I have are the following:

1)I tried Step and Solidworks as native data, with the attached result.
it seems like it is doing a UV mapping when I choose displacement, and I dont know why. the mapping works fine with a "normal" bumpmap!
I also have these gaps between the different surface areas (see attachment!)388
we tried "box mapping" here, but the result doesnt really change when we chose "cylindrical" !
when I create a native bunkspeed model i.e. a sphere and try to attach the material to adjust the heigths, spacing etc. it goes totally nuts.391 I assume, this may have to do with the fact, that I had to adjust the scale of our model after retrieving, still I dont understand what it is doing, as it doesnt do that with only a "normal" bumpmap.
2)this is the texture, we actually have to apply. 389390However I would be content with a "normal" diamond-like texture or an etruded squarish shape (not the "pyramid" shape)I created a texture with black rectancles in AI, but the result on the part seems rather "wobbly" than accurate.
388
but I also tried a rendering of the texture, as suggested before and I tried a converted "normal map" of both, the 2d AI file and the 3d rendering of the knobs.

3) as the "background" of the texture has a "eroded" surface, I assume I would need to do this with a multilayer material, is that correct?

for everybody who is interested, I can provide models, texture, etc.
but I AM DESPERATE FOR HELP !
we have another 2 weeks time for the renderings, but I would have to tell our client if we capable of doing the job asap (best today!)!
I am sorry for my bad english, but I hope to get the point across.

THANKS A BUNCH IN ADVANCE !!

artem
01-21-2013, 02:49 PM
If you provide the model and the textures, I can try me hand at it quickly.

Here is what I got so far:

392393394395

dirk_designgestalten
01-21-2013, 03:59 PM
hello Artem,
if you send me an email adress (you can send it privately) I will open a dropbox folder. I would also be curious to take a look at the bunkspeed model you are showing above!
thanks for the quick response!
dirk

blitz
01-21-2013, 06:24 PM
Hi Dirk,

Looking at your bump map texture, it doesn't look like a correct height map for the bumps. The perimeter of each of the diamond shapes should be uniformly darker, with the center of the diamonds becoming lighter in a uniform gradient.

The use of the bump map as you have it will produce undesirable bump behaviour with normal and displacement.

I attached an example of a diamond texture which may work better. Copy and paste this repeatedly where your diamond are over your existing texture in photoshop.

396

artem
01-21-2013, 08:05 PM
Or use blitz texture as is and just tile it in BS.

blitz
01-21-2013, 08:37 PM
It won't tile to the correct pattern. The diamonds in the original texture are staggered diagonally at an angle.

artem
01-21-2013, 08:40 PM
Good point!

dirk_designgestalten
01-21-2013, 11:31 PM
thanks Blitz,
the file you provided was a step into the right direction...
however I still have a few problems (maybe more than a few ...:))
as the new product is not released yet, I cannot share that cad file, but I could share this file 397
I will share my (poor) results tomorrow, need to go to bed now, its 1:30am and I have to wake the kids at 6:30am :)

Artem:
is it possible to share your file with me, as I hope to learn from it.
thanks
dirk

blitz
01-22-2013, 07:07 AM
Dirk, no problem. If I have time, I will try to do something similar to what Artem created. If not, I can provide a revised texture and we can all test the results. Artem if you can send me the file as well to test. If not, I might create my own and provide you with my test Dirk.

artem
01-22-2013, 12:27 PM
It's not really much but it's a step in the right direction.

http://www.speedyshare.com/cRu6J/Test-Rubber-Bump.zip

Let me know if the link works for you.

dirk_designgestalten
01-22-2013, 12:43 PM
hello Blitz, I am sorry for not returning any earlier...
I would have my model etc. for you, how do you want me to sent it?
cheers Dirk

artem
01-22-2013, 01:16 PM
Dirk,

Just go to http://www.2shared.com/ and upload it there and post a link here. I'd like to try my hand at it too.

Thanks!

dirk_designgestalten
01-22-2013, 01:30 PM
hello everybody,
I put all my pathetic tries in here:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/3jxuqtlbenke6ko/LIsKiYyhYG

there a the following files:
- a few different texture I tried out
- a folder with two step files: one with a few knobs on it, one without. if you take a look at the one with the knobs, it gives you a reference what the texture should look like. the area where the knobs are located is surrounded by step up to the next surface.
- my .bif file, where I tried Blitz´texture in the meantime. as you can see, I am still having problems with the uv koordinates I guess, as on the same surface the texture will come in different sizes (I will add a screengrab to show what I mean)

for Artem:
I tried your file and it only had a "normal" bump map. when I hit the displacement button I had the same problems like I have with my models. it is not really obviuos in your pics, but was this, what you tried out a normal bumpmap and not a displacement map maybe?
thanks a bunch!

dirk

btw:
I believe Blitz´texture is the way to go, I only wanted to show you, what I tried as well!


EDIT:
ok, in the meantime I assume, that the imported geometry does not come in with a nicely and evenly smooth mesh. this is the reason I believe, that the texture behaves awkward.
NOW:
how can I adjust or control the import geometry. to my knowledge, there is no possibilty when I write a STEP file to have control over this.
when importing into bunkspeed, I always put the tesselation qulity on maximum.
what else can I do to recive a smooth and even mesh?
cheers Dirk

artem
01-22-2013, 02:56 PM
Hi Dirk,

Yes, mine was just a normal map.

artem
01-22-2013, 06:23 PM
So I've noticed you don't actually have an area mapped out where you want the bumps to be. You need create that area and then apply a custom color to it so in BS it can take a separate displace texture.

Displace doesn't really work for my because I think your polygons are weird.

Here is what I've got with a bump map.

398

If you're just going for that 1 simple image, maybe a bump map is all you need.

david.randle
01-22-2013, 11:57 PM
Don't do displacement for this. especially if you're a novice. There is a lot you need to know about geometry, normals etc. before using displacement normally.